Build a Company and Career Based on Sales

Build a Company and Career Based on Sales is about how a career progresses but also still relies on some of the same abilities and skill sets that sales professionals develop early in their careers.    Ken has had a successful career in the medical field as a salesperson, and executive, and as an individual who takes on challenges and drives outcomes for companies and investors.  Today you will learn from that wide range of experience, 


About Kenneth Hasty
Kenneth G Hasty is an award-winning salesperson, speaker, trainer, author and an experienced Fortune 500 corporate sales & marketing executive. Kenneth has been ranked among LinkedIn’s “Top 10” ‘Management Consultant & Sales Coach” profiles and he has worked in all 50 states as well as several countries. Leverage Kenneth's experience, expertise and insights to grow your company and train your people.  https://mysalesexec.com/

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Transcript

Tim Kubiak: 0:02

So are you looking for different insights in your sales? I've got Kenneth with me today and we're going to tell sales stories. He's got a different background me. He's run medical device sales organizations been in sales VP of Marketing. And you can find out more about him at my sales exec calm. Thanks for listening to show. I'm Tim Kubiak. And as always, this is bow ties in business. You can find us on our socials at bow ties in business on Facebook and Instagram and bow ties in bi z on Twitter. Me you can find at Tim Kubiak. And if you're listening to this when it came out. We are launching a new case study group for our sales acceleration program. So be sure to check that out at Tim Kubiak comm or drop me a message. KENNETH, thanks for being here. Can you give us a little more your backstory?

Ken Hasty: 0:49

Thank you, Tim. I appreciate that. Well, you know, I started in sales. I clearly remember when I was six years old. But my father was a hotshot sales guy for Xerox, he said he was number one, I'm assuming he was number one once in a while. And I doubt he was number one forever. But he was good, right? And so I found that bicycle I wanted and Christmas was coming up. And I'm like that, you know, you see that sting ray there with the leopard see the little streamers coming out in the handlebars, and that I got to have that for Christmas. He is not a problem, son, I'll pay half. And I'm like half years old. He says a day What? Christmas coming up, will let you sell Christmas cards back in the day, you know, you ordered out and they get a catalog and people go door to door and you get your personalized Christmas cards. And so I thought, okay, I'll try it. And I went door to door for about 10 minutes came back crying. I'm like, nobody wants to go to dad's like, he's like, Listen, let me write you out a little sales script. Okay, here's what I want you to say. And then I easily sold plenty of Christmas cars to pay for half of my first bicycle and that they got me kind of hooked on selling in general as a way to make money made a good impression on me. And also the process, right? It's not just winging it, you know that there? There is a process when people think and they want to buy from you if it's something that they possibly need. You just have to make them understand that right.

Tim Kubiak: 2:14

You know, the beauty is my thing with my clients this year is process follow up and follow through. You got sales process, it's six years old, that to help fund a bicycle, how come so many companies miss it?

Ken Hasty: 2:28

You know, it's kind of funny, isn't it, but that's how we make our living. You open those open those companies, the I think what happens is, companies, at least a lot of the clients I've had, and then this is true and medical device, and it's true manufacturing, or aka in both is, you know, they the company start with a passionate product, the passionate people that put the product together, they, they they put their energy into the product. And then sales is almost like an afterthought, right? It's like, well, then we got to get some of those sales guys No, go out, sell it and you know, make us rich, and we'll happily ever after. But sales sales people, if I've learned this in sales organizations, if the person at the top does not have a sales background, or the very least the person in charge of sales, it can be pretty brutal for the salespeople, because they don't they don't know the process. They what they want is results period, you know, and they don't want to spend money. It's I've worked a couple times I've worked under one who was an accountant, basically a CPA, that was brutal. One who was an engineer, and that was brutal. But when I've worked under people that have sales, even even strong marketing backgrounds without and by the way, I was successful in both of those. I just had to fight hard.

Tim Kubiak: 3:42

Fight, though,

Ken Hasty: 3:43

right? What's been your experience in that? You know, it's interesting, I've

Tim Kubiak: 3:47

been lucky that most of the people I've worked for my career have been sales people. And I've worked some for a couple of really brilliant folks that really got close to their customers, and understood what the customer needed. And the minute I got started working for somebody that wasn't a salesperson, or didn't have a sales background. I didn't last I was out of there in six months. I'm like, yeah, put me in a different division. You know, this clown doesn't get it.

Ken Hasty: 4:13

Yeah, I've had I've had that we we had a CFO, I was in a public company, and I was a national sales manager there. And so he would come down the hall to my office every year when we budget and he'd be like, Can I need you to make this many million more dollars in sales, and we're cutting your budget by 20%? And I'd be like, I'll tell you what, what you're telling me is you need to make a certain amount. Let me let me do a bottom on forecasts we'll talk about and so that's what I did, and maybe one that made sense. Oftentimes it was more by the way, but you know, just to go in and if you're if you're forecasting your sales with a magic wand, you got to rethink your forecasting, right?

Tim Kubiak: 4:50

Yeah, I love I tell a story all the time. I love when exists senior execs and CEOs come in and say I know the market shrinking 7% We're gonna grow 22% next year.

Ken Hasty: 5:02

Yeah, with no logical reason, right?

Tim Kubiak: 5:04

Because why? Because I want to you have the number one market share and a growing business or declining business. And there's a little bit to outperform. But the X to your point, expectations have to be realistic. Well, for sure. And

Ken Hasty: 5:18

then there's the other side of the coin. Right, let's, let's say sales are taking off that many times in the past, we've had a fantastic sales run, and backorder. Because they, you know, the operation side didn't forecast, according, you know, to fall on the sales side. And that's something that if you're, I believe, if you have the opportunity, and you're inside of a corporation, and you're involved with the sales, forecasting and budgeting, make sure to have those frank conversations with the guys across the building.

Tim Kubiak: 5:50

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I was just talking to a buddy two days ago, that stepped out of corporate life in his whole thing now is going to Series B and series c funded startups. though they're past a, they're a little bit mature. And when they're starting to ride that rocket ship, actually going in, he's a sales operations guy, right? He can sell but his his real pedigree sales operations. And he goes in and looks at all the things that when you and I run teams that you know, kind of break the glass and things are going haywire. He's now charging people to come in and clean it up on the backside. He's got a line out the door for business. It's brilliant.

Ken Hasty: 6:29

That's fantastic. You know, I started my company myself, exactly. I my first thought was that I would go to VCs. And and because a VC my impression was that VCs have a portfolio of companies, let's say a dozen, and they got one that they're counting on to be the unicorn. They've got a couple that they're counting on him to pay the bills, and maybe nice exits and such. And the rest of them they're figuring are probably going to be duds. But but they're they're hoping, right? Yeah, I tested that theory. And I said, I want a couple. I love the VCs. And they said, yeah, that's absolutely right. And, and I asked him the question I said, so why, what? Why don't you hire somebody like me to come in, give me a worst one, and build it and grow it and hope you have a successful exit. And they look at me like a deer in headlights, you know, it's just it's just not part of their mindset. And it's very interesting to me.

Tim Kubiak: 7:23

Yeah, you know, that's really interesting, because you're dead on, right? They grind people so hard to free up the cash. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Right? Awesome job, right? Yeah, it's a job, right? And you're right, they're looking for the one unicorn with the 3 million to x pay off. Right? And the others, they're willing to let sink. You know, and a lot of times when I started I'm like, you know, with clients, I'm like, bring me your biggest most screwed up must win deal. And let's figure it out.

Ken Hasty: 7:51

That's a great way to do it. Because they're emotionally involved in that one. And they need it.

Tim Kubiak: 7:55

Yeah, yeah, you know, and that's one of the things I had to learn as a salesperson. I didn't intend to be a big game hunter. But that's what I got good at. Right. So you know, sticking with the hunting analogy, I'm not the guy that should be shooting squirrels and rabbits, I get bored quick, and there's not enough to eat there. So I, you know, I'm going after the bigger stuff. And when every time I've tried to go, essentially down market and transactional business, my career, I've hated it, I've been miserable.

Ken Hasty: 8:23

Now, I worked for, like, say the names of the companies are now let's say, a major medical company. And I was the national kick out person. So my job was to recruit the big doctors, that were big customers of the other companies, and we were really, really successful at it. But the nice part of it is a they basically left me alone, they gave me the budget I needed, allow me to go do what I needed travel, what I needed. And, you know, we brought forward the results. Unfortunately, a lot of companies what they'll do, especially it, I'll put it like this, in my experience, if you're a public company, you're dealing with basically Monopoly money, right? It's numbers is is nobody ever sees a bill, you know, dollar bill or whatever. It's just numbers and budgets, and at the end, you want your numbers. I have to tell him all the time, my clients I say it's okay to make cuts but let's not cut an artery.

Tim Kubiak: 9:25

Yeah. Yeah. And, and when they cut where they cut is, it's an amazing thing. Really.

Ken Hasty: 9:32

The first thing they catch marketing, right, then sales. Yeah. And they're like, why don't we have the sales and marketing? You're like, well, thanks, money.

Tim Kubiak: 9:40

Yeah, the demand went away. I have no idea why nobody Why does nobody know about our fantastic product?

Ken Hasty: 9:47

Well, the, the other brilliant thing. A lot of them will do you know? I see this a lot at the VP level, even CLL. They bring in, they bring in the gun, the gun. He comes in and fires all the top reps, right? Because there's Much Money, they're expensive, I can hire two people out of college for the price of one of those top reps. And then they'll have more salespeople or even the same amount, but for a lot less money. And then for some reason those guys leave right before it crashes. And then it just totally collapses. Because a those top reps have gone and taking their customers somewhere else, and be the top revenue getting paid well, for a reason. Because they know the market their resource to the clients, they're not going in and talking to their clients and going, how do I how are you supposed to use this? How do you know? Yeah,

Tim Kubiak: 10:33

you know, it's funny, you say that, because I have some clients that are, you know, the mid six figure kind of guys that are on the three year plan, they go somewhere, they make bank for 24 to 36 months, right, and they're good at what they do. And then they get out because their quota is gonna get jacked so much, or somebody new is gonna come in and just get rid of them. So they're literally every three years. They're shifting segments.

Ken Hasty: 10:57

Yeah, that makes sense. And the other thing I see a lot is the every other year plan, right? So it's so crazy, crazy, crazy, make a lot of money, and then basically just let the other year crash. So they lower your quota again, and then you come back, because you've already loaded up at the end of the year half of your next year sales. So yeah, so then you let that crash, and then come back a year later, and then have a record year again, and people have that cycle. And and I just find it kind of amusing. But I also find it when you're in the management level to try to keep that from happening quite so much.

Tim Kubiak: 11:31

Yeah, you know, it's the old phrase compensation drives behavior does, right. You know, there's, there's been times I got called a sandbag or a lot early in my career, I hit my number. And, you know, you kept my plan, screw you, I'm not bringing the dealing.

Ken Hasty: 11:47

You know, when I was a Texas as a young dental implant sales guy, and I that year, I earned salesperson of the year, by the way, but I am I drove out and I drive, I didn't care if I had to get up three in the morning, a young family. So I want to be home when I could get out three in the morning, or be at a customer's office five hours away at eight o'clock when they open the door. I be there and hopefully sell them something. Then I would hang around town a little bit. I stopped to get some lunch but on my expense account, then I call on some more people and I get home like 910 at night, right? You know, and well, the powers that be decided that they're not paying for those lunches. The policy is that you have to stay overnight in order to get meals. So I'm fine. So I started going out there I stayed come out the night before I'd have a huge dinner a big breakfast, I let them know do a great, great lunch. might stay a couple nights, you know, and I go you know, this is kind of slowing down my sales. But you know it's comfy. And and so if that's the way it's got to be so I can get a lunch. You want to spend $200 basically for me to have lunch with so be it.

Tim Kubiak: 12:58

Yeah, you're getting off for 12 bucks. So for 200

Ken Hasty: 13:02

Well, it's amazing how they changed the policy.

Tim Kubiak: 13:06

Did they get wise? Yeah,

Ken Hasty: 13:07

they did. Yeah. I mean, cuz Come on. And I've had to explain that to people when I've set up budgets for people that above me and companies that were not, or even for my clients that were not have a sales background. Because on paper, certain things look good. When you're sitting there looking at it in your budget. However, when you when you look at it, and you're actually looking at it in reality, and like you say people go where the money where they're compensated?

Tim Kubiak: 13:32

Yeah. Yeah, I got, I've got an expense story. So I've got to share with you. So one of which was I took a role. And I had five very senior well compensated outside salespeople. And my first week on the job, I was getting messages like, hey, I want to take this client to Starbucks. Can I spend $20? I'm like, Yeah, why are you at $20? To ask this question? Yeah, you're selling $30 million a year and kit? Okay. Sure. Right. And it turns out, the previous leadership had to approve every expense before it was done. So you'd have people that were selling, you know, 10 $12 million to a client and they couldn't spend five bucks on coffee, and wouldn't get reimbursed on it because they didn't get pre approval. I'm like, okay, anything under 100 bucks, don't even ask, I don't even want to know, use your judgment, treat it like it's your own money. My my other favorite expense story is is I was traveling and I lived on the road for 20 years, right 200 nights a year all over the country in the world. And once my phone rings, and it's the expense department, and I'm you know, I just been in the UK for like 10 days and somewhere else. They said, we've got a question about your Dallas trip where you went on to Phoenix. I'm like, Yeah, okay. They're like, your dinner expense was a Snickers bar. Yeah, yeah. I came out of meetings. I was running like I got a Snickers bar. They're like, in the next night you had an Annie and soft pretzel. Yeah, that sounds about right. And what's the problem? They're like, that's really unhealthy. We give you a daily allowance. Can you at least buy a salad? Something?

Ken Hasty: 15:12

Well, that's great. At least they care. Right?

Tim Kubiak: 15:14

Yeah. You know, and I know the lady forever. She was a fantastic lady. And I'm like, what's wrong with my Snickers? bar receipt? Fine. Don't get me to $3. Leave me alone. I

Ken Hasty: 15:23

get to that point. I've seen companies ago, we don't pay for snacks.

Unknown: 15:28

Yeah, well, yeah, we'll

Ken Hasty: 15:30

pay for a meal. But if you're just having a snack when I'm paying for that, but yeah, and you find the snack was my meal. Right? Yeah.

Tim Kubiak: 15:36

And that's exactly what I did. Right? This isn't a snack. This is my this is that was my only food expense probably for the whole day, right? Yeah, but

Ken Hasty: 15:46

yeah, I find it amazing, where people will try to make cuts, and oftentimes it's very successful, you know, what money's flowing, and they're just trying to bleed, you know, another nickel out of it. But, you know, so many times that just, you know, I'll give an example salaries. So, as and usually that'll happen with new management companies have been going for a while usually have figured it out if they're successful is still there, that, you know, they've got to pay good people good salaries, or at least allow them to make a reasonable living. Like, yeah, some some will cap the Commission's, which I think is really stupid, because you pay commissions on variable, right. And then variable is then bring in more money into your company. Yeah, you know, so if somebody already made all they can make? Well, you know, it's like, they're, they're not likely going to bring in any more money to the company at that point.

Tim Kubiak: 16:38

Yeah, no, literally, I know, in my own career, I'm not taking orders, because I wouldn't make a nickel. I'm like, yeah, you know, Can Can you send that in next Monday? I'm getting it right away. I got it on, hold on, don't worry about it. I just, you know, didn't do me any good.

Ken Hasty: 16:55

Yeah, it's amazing, you know, navigating through the different mindsets of people. And we do that now as consultants, right. But we're able to at least talk about our experiences and say, so here, here's what happened. Here's the bad side of that. Here's what can go wrong, you know?

Unknown: 17:09

Yeah. So talk about that you come in and you help companies kind of change your sales trajectory? Now,

Tim Kubiak: 17:14

can you share a little bit about what you do?

Ken Hasty: 17:16

Well, you know, in my, in my sales career, I was the guy, my sales management careers were both Actually, I was the guy they hire bring in to turn someplace around being a territory or be at a company. And I was very good at it. And I got a lot of, you know, a lot of a lot of war stories, I can tell you there were very successful, I made some mistakes, too, you know, so you know,

Tim Kubiak: 17:36

we all do

Ken Hasty: 17:36

perfect, right? But, but in general made a lot of money for a lot of people, a lot of companies. And so now what I do is I try to take those, you know, skills that I that I acquired during that time, and the experience, and now with six years of having a consulting and coaching company, able to sit down next to somebody come alongside as a business owner, like some say, somebody, a medical device gets more medical device company, even a big medical device, I can come alongside them say, you know, I've already been here before and a different life, you know, so, so, I know you do that, too. And it's like, so let's, let's talk about it. And normally what I find, and I'll give away some free advice to people that are listening out there, I always start and everybody thinks is crazy. I always start with the messaging. And the messaging is what ultimately becomes what you put on your website and your brochures, in your sales, scripting. And then it all starts from the messaging. So if your messaging is flawed, then your whole sales is going to be throttled back, right. Yeah. And messaging has to come from the customer's perspective. You know, why is it good for them? Not Not that we're wonderful. We're this we're that we're this. And the other thing that's been very interesting to me, and I don't know if you're doing this yet, Tim, but I learned this from a very expensive consultant that I was eavesdropping on a call. There, there's a trend now where companies, especially a medical medical device, and medical healthcare, they like to use big words, and they like to use long sentences. And because it sounds impressive, right? We're talking to a doctor. So we're gonna really sound like I'm ready. But here's what happens. Nowadays, most, most Google searches and most people looking at the internet are doing it on mobile devices. Well over 70% now. Yep. And the downside of having these long sentences and all this pontificating, and the big words is people kind of get a brain jam, right? They look at it and they scroll if the first off, they have to scroll more than twice on their cell phone, they're off your website, you know, unless you really hook them somehow. And so they get in kind of a brain jam, they're trying to process all this stuff and it's just not comfortable though. They'll read more if it's comfortable. So there's a website is free to nap. It's The Hemingway app. And the Hemingway app, I just love it. Because what it does, the theory now is if you can get your messaging down to a seventh or a sixth grade level, and you know, sometimes you use a, you know, because you have to in your industry, you have to use a certain word that might kick it up a little higher. But as a rule, if you can keep it at the sixth or seventh grade level, you'll be more successful. It's not because people are slow. It's not because your clients or you're not made, there may be doctors and maybe professors, it's because they can scroll even while they're driving. You know, I didn't say that. So they can scroll passenger in the car. And they can comprehend it. So what happens now it's easy to comprehend, and they may scroll a few pages for that, versus kind of getting in a log jam, a mental train wreck, trying to keep up with your messaging is trying to impress them. So that's the number one thing that I start with, and and everything else flows from that. And it seems to help a lot.

Tim Kubiak: 20:59

You know, it's funny, I so I have this argument with my web people sometimes. And I love them. They're great. And I've been picking on them a little bit lately. Right. And I know Google changes its algorithm all the time. They're like, Oh, they want, you know, at least 1200 words on a page and did it in a day and it you know, and I'm like, Yeah, that's great. So literally, my compromise has been, I'm going to write the top, so I would actually read it. And you can write the bottom. So Google loves it.

Ken Hasty: 21:30

Yeah, there's something to that there's what they call above the fold, right? There's like, like newspapers or headlines, you know, for people that weren't around for all the newspaper on your porch every morning. You know, it was so important, what was above the fold. Basically, when the newspapers folded in half, you're looking at the top half above the fold, you see that headline, if it doesn't grab you that newspaper, man up in the trash, but if they can grab you with that headline, he start reading, then they got your hook, which is their goal. So same thing with the websites, in principle, whatever you see first, which is what you're saying, Do, whatever you see, first is what's going to decide, make you decide if you want to continue or just go to another website.

Tim Kubiak: 22:08

Yeah. And I'll use the podcast post that we do. Since we're doing the podcast, literally, I'll put in a paragraph the player, right, a more button. And if you're on the main page for the podcast, that's what you see. And if you click More than it's going to have another couple sentences, your bio in your links, and then I've got my call to action below that, and then I'm dropping the transcript below all of that, because nobody's going to scroll down through an hour's conversation in 5000 words, to see what I've got to say at the bottom.

Ken Hasty: 22:38

That's true. That's perfect. Good idea.

Tim Kubiak: 22:40

Yeah. So, you know, again, negotiate with the web people.

Ken Hasty: 22:45

Another thing and it's true, the Google's looking for, like 1200, and more in their algorithms. But it doesn't have to be on your main pages. So blogging is gotten really important. So if you've got a blog on your website, that's the place to pontificate that's the place to throw in all this stuff you want to do and all your keywords, because the bots will find it, it's still on your website, it still brings them to your site, as a relevant site, and probably more so. But now in a case, like a podcast, and if your script, you know, you're transcribing it, then that's different, you know, because it's got to be there. But in general, where people just want to make their websites go forever, or, or they'll do something like, above the fold, you go on there. And it's like, what is this company? What do they do what? And so, so it's important since sales these days, and I know, you know, this with your clients do, it's not just the guy knocking on the door, trying to, you know, trying to sell something anymore, it's the combination of everything, because so much is digital now. So it's a combination of how you present on your website, it's a combination of your messaging, combination of your, your image, how it looks, you know, your company culture, they, because the people that are buying now, especially educated people are so informed. So by the time they talk with you, by the time they agree to have a conversation, there's a really good chance that they've already done the research. And so you're not there to teach them. You know about what your company does, you're more there to teach them why to buy from your company, particularly.

Tim Kubiak: 24:17

It's amazing. That was my conversation yesterday. That was my conversation yesterday with a large financial services company, and they said 70% of our customers already know what they want before salesperson ever talks to them. They've done the research, they've done some comparison. Our job is to really understand their needs and make sure they're choosing the right thing and then understand our differentiator from the competition.

Ken Hasty: 24:45

That makes good point. Yeah, it's something I see a lot. I work with a lot of smaller businesses as well startups and things like that. So I've got kind of a variety of clients that I work with. And and those, one of the things I see way too much, you is a Yahoo or a gmail email address? Yeah. And it's like, nobody will take you seriously, especially if you're selling a product that is worth some money. And so you know that most of them will have a website, but it just amazes me they do, say, a free email address. So I, another thing I recommend is make your email addresses match your company website, even if it's just, you know, yeah, because it gives you that professional image, right, the professional look. And I think that's so important. And people overlook that because they're saving three bucks a month or five bucks a month, or whatever it is.

Tim Kubiak: 25:38

So I should not use please buy my really expensive stuff@gmail.com

Ken Hasty: 25:43

I would think that though, you can try. But you

Tim Kubiak: 25:46

know, I'm gonna see if that one's sacred when we're done.

Ken Hasty: 25:50

Yeah, that'd be interesting. I mean, you know, so, so, you know, websites, most everybody has a website, because that's really how people find your storefront, if you will. But a lot of them are using the Gmail address to leverage that, which would are the Gmail, they're using Gmail, but they're not doing their email address for leverage that. So you know, things like that I find to be really important. Another thing is, if they're doing say, an Instagram page, or Twitter page, or Facebook page, or even LinkedIn, social media pages, and especially LinkedIn, don't use a picture from the wedding reception where you were, you know, partying like the Kennedys, you know, your, your image matters. And even if your service business, even if you're, you know, doing something that, you know, even if you're manure, shoveling business, you know, your, your, your image matters. People want to buy from people they know, like, and trust, and then they, for whatever reason, they feel like they can trust you more, if you look and present yourself as a professional.

Tim Kubiak: 26:57

Yeah, you know, and it's interesting, because I think that's a really difficult balance. You know, for example, my, I don't love Facebook, and my Facebook has become a combination of business things for me, like LinkedIn traditionally was, as well as family stuff. Right? So that's a tough road to walk sometimes, you know, and I pick up myself as an example, I listen to heavy metal. If you're not into heavy metal, suddenly, you're going to be turned off this guy,

Ken Hasty: 27:31

what you know, that is a catch 22 and like, for instance, you know, I told you I've been getting involved in clubhouse right, the new platform, that's all verbals, like chat rooms, and the listeners, if you're not already on clubhouse, you need to know it's an app from Apple to start with. So it's only on Apple products. But it's gone from I think, 500,000 people in December to somewhere over 7 million in January. So it's really taken off. Some of the big like, Ilan Musk is on there, you know, for Sam, yo, yo, gates, you know, just etc. And so give you an idea. It's not it's not just a little passing thing. It's actually probably the next huge social media site. So if you're not a clubhouse, take a look, I strongly consider getting on it. And also, if you get on it, I recommend getting a club extension for your website.

Tim Kubiak: 28:26

And oh, yeah. Oh, interesting.

Ken Hasty: 28:28

Oh, would it to your regular website right? So you just do a redirect. But that way in clubhouse you can be one of the cool kids right within that club.

Tim Kubiak: 28:38

Oh, that's a really good idea.

Ken Hasty: 28:40

And those are there's not that many I was able to get my last name tasty ha St. was able to get hasty club because I was early enough in right. I tried to get hasty calm, it's like 1000s of dollars at that club, because, you know, they're starting to catch on now. Right now, most of those are about 299. In the first year, I did hours and 99 cents. So I would lock up anything to do with your company right now and club, because you can always let it go later if if it doesn't pan out. But I have a feeling it's gonna be really 10 bucks

Unknown: 29:07

a year and a 401. redirect? Yeah, no brainer.

Ken Hasty: 29:11

Yeah. So that's what I did. So and then what I did clubhouse is more of an informal format. It's a business format. But it's more relational. Right? So, so I did, I put hasty closure, so hit me up at HD club. And that's a regular website, that's actually a page on my website, but you can't get to it from the regular website, you go back into the site from there, but that's where I put more of a personal approach to say, this is me, you know, and that's where that's where you, that's where you rock and roll comes in. Right? You know, that's kind of stuff. And then you're like, I'm a church going person, I point that out there so that you know, these kinds of things, right. So you want to get to know me as a person, that's great. But then I roll into, oh, by the way, here's some business things why you might want to do business with me, and you know, that go from there. So it's a different approach. It's an interesting social media approach. I like it personally. I'm on a room right now. We just started it and we got rave reviews so far. And it's how to grow your business from seven to eight figures in and it's one of the moderators, there's a few high roller moderators on there. And we're doing it on eastern time at 230 on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays. Drop it on there you do it. I don't know if you're on clubhouse

Unknown: 30:24

yet. But you know what, I got an invite two weeks ago, I've got to go get an Apple product.

Tim Kubiak: 30:30

It doesn't work on Android. I'm in a

Ken Hasty: 30:31

downside, right now. Here's the problem, here's the catch. 22 is going to come out on Android. But by then it's gonna be so big, you're gonna have missed a lot of the opportunity, right? I feel your pain because I had to go buy an iPad.

Tim Kubiak: 30:46

That's kind of where I'm at. And you know, frankly, some of the stuff I'm doing with clients now, I'm wanting something I can draw on. And my my droid stuff is brutal to draw on and share. So yeah, I

Ken Hasty: 30:58

I pads are pretty good. And then what I do on my iPad, what turns out all my friends do with their iPads, is by the case that has a keyboard built into it. So So now it's not just a tablet is basically a small computer type and use it that way. And then it's got most of the functions of regular laptop, and I ended up using it a lot. So you can buy you can buy one of those a new iPad, an eighth generation or some for like a paid 299. So it's not crazy expensive, you know, now.

Tim Kubiak: 31:29

Yeah. And you look, you know, I went did Microsoft Surface route when they were brand new years ago. Right. And it you know, I went back I went to bat back to Samsung is the is the real answer. Right. I used that for a few years. And I loved that it had the Microsoft suite in it. But every I've gone to Google, Google stuff for my business. And

Ken Hasty: 31:57

I use a lot of Google stuff and business wise, and I'll tell you, I'll tell you a little bit of a computer story, just while we're talking computers, I bit the bullet because I was just video editing and the windows stuff hadn't caught up enough yet. So I bit the bullet and I bought a MacBook Pro. And I bought a very expensive video editing software and some other software. So I know how much I had into and I'd say, you know, probably at least$7,000 for the computer and the stuff, you know, the programs and things. Yeah. And then it crashed completely died. So I take it down to Mac because you know, they're the king and they're going to the store and you know, they've got the best staff and all this and they said well, I'm sorry, you're screwed. You know, they, you know, you just need to buy another one. And at that point, I was like, I'm not doing that. I can't afford that. You know, that's right. Yeah. Well, you know, he like have any HP laptop I have a very nice HP laptop in front of me here. It's like $900 right? Still fraction I can buy three of these for what I pay for another MacBook Pro you know

Tim Kubiak: 32:59

exactly.

Ken Hasty: 33:01

So anyway, I just my frugal side. But also business is still done on Excel and you know, and word things like that. And that's another thing I know, I know you got to be telling your clients is if you're not using a CRM already a good CRM, and ideally a CRM, where you can do sales and marketing automation with it. You need to start step up your game because if I had that even though salesman of the year, hotshot sales guy, and corporate guy, if I had that I probably be retired on an island right now somewhere.

Tim Kubiak: 33:35

So you actually hit a trivia question that I got the answer to last week. Cool. Go for it. You know, when CRM was first invented?

Ken Hasty: 33:44

No, no, I'd say probably in the 90s

Tim Kubiak: 33:48

That's what I thought too. It was actually 87 and it was at

Ken Hasty: 33:52

I use that I remember it, but it wasn't on the internet. That was just plug into your computer and use it.

Tim Kubiak: 33:56

Yep. So 99 was when salesforce.com started.

Ken Hasty: 34:02

Yeah, salesforce.com done a great job there. There. I've used it for years with because it's good news, bad news, right? It's great because there are old technology that's been around for a long time is bad because it's an old technology. It's been around for a long time. So to me it's a little clunky. And the reason I say that is what so tell force when when another company comes with some great idea or product Salesforce has to keep up so they buy something and stick it on there. Right so like remember the Mr. Potato Head dolls, you know those little toys where he started out you stick the eyeball on his stick this is probably sue me, but I've used I've used them kind of like Mr. Potato Head these days. I've got this big monsters platform, and then they buy these companies like stick them on there. So they're not wholly integrated. They don't they don't flow as smoothly. As a lot of them do. I use one it's a newer one is called pulse. And I like it because it's got. It's like, kind of like using an Excel sheet that you can fully automate. It's very interesting. And there's actually like three of them called pulse. I think their website, if you check them out is let's see, what is it? The pulse, so that pulse spot, calm, I know they've got some other URLs but doesn't want to remember. So that pulse spot calm, you know, they can do a demo or whatever. It's not very expensive, but it's completely integrated. So it runs really smoothly. And I just like it, I think that's worth checking out. No money if you do that.

Tim Kubiak: 35:39

You know, it's funny. So I, I've rolled Salesforce out at three companies. And I was at one that took it out, replaced it with an absolutely atrocious solution that I won't say, because they will sue me. It

Unknown: 35:51

was the CFO decision.

Tim Kubiak: 35:53

Yep, that's exactly right. They decided to take it out, save the CRM fees, and just use what was native to the earpiece system they installed.

Ken Hasty: 36:07

And, yeah, that's a disaster waiting to happen at that point.

Tim Kubiak: 36:11

Yeah, yeah, the migration was a bit overlaid, a friend of mine was running, running the transformation team. So that was always a bit touching, go. But, you know, we got it in, we had actually used the logic that we all knew from the previous solution, and building the new one. And we actually, the consultants didn't catch that we built it upside down, we, we had the exact opposite flow for the new system that we should have we right customers had no idea. But for sales, it was nightmare. And he couldn't see anything. And there were no dashboards.

Ken Hasty: 36:43

You know, it comes back around again to companies trying to save money, and they end up cutting an artery and certainly the, if you're gonna invest money, my recommendation and somebody has put, you know, big multimillion dollar sales budgets together, is, first off, invest in good people. You know, because if you don't have good people, companies, or people less at the end of the day, it's just a bunch of people that all work together, right? So so if you invest in good people, then invest on ways to make their job more efficient and more effective. AKA, proper marketing, aka the tools of CRM, other sales tools, like physical sales tools, things like that. Yep, flyers. So it, because then you can leverage good people, you can help them to be even more successful, write your comp plans in such a way that they want to be there that there's no, no ceiling on it. And maybe a big bonus structure. You know, one trick the comp plans, in all my tricks the wrong word, but one way to write comp plans are still motivating, but you can somewhat throttle back is something I used to do, but people seem to like, and it was this it was large bonuses. So then the size of the territory didn't matter, right? Because comp plans usually percentages. So somebody is in this East Coast territory that's pumping out $2 million a year, and they go, you know, 10% over, then you know, that's, you know,$200,000, they're making commission, which is great, because they're doing I don't have a problem with that. But for the companies that want to kind of throttle back, instead of saying, okay, you know, maybe they want to make 20 grand on that. Say, say if you're 10% over across the board, we're gonna pay a $10,000 bonus. Whether you got a $2 territory or $2 million territory, you get 10%. Oh, and what happens is everybody tries for that, and a lot of them end up at 876, that's fine, because they're paying the bill for the people that are at 9796 95. Right, it's to balance out and the overachievers are going to benefit they're going to make their bonuses, and I've never had anybody complain when we wrote a $10,000 check to them.

Tim Kubiak: 38:48

No, not only about the tax rate,

Ken Hasty: 38:50

there's that. And actually, the CFO at that company was wonderful, because he, he do it in certain ways. He figured out the best way for them tax wise, whether to give it to them incrementally or, you know, rolling into you know what, whatever he did, but he did things to help them.

Tim Kubiak: 39:05

You talk about CFOs let's talk about sales, people dealing with CFOs. That's something that I literally see more and more all the time CFOs in every decision. Are you seeing the same thing?

Ken Hasty: 39:17

Yes. And, and there's some CFOs that are really sharp that way. And in fact, I just had dinner the other night with the CFO I used to work with and you know, he gets it right. The CFO is a get it are fantastic, unfortunately. And this goes back to the second thing I do with every company I start with is I run them through personality profile, and I usually use disk.

Tim Kubiak: 39:39

I was just gonna ask what you use. Myers Briggs,

Ken Hasty: 39:42

I chose a number of them that, you know, they're all the same only different disc is observable behavior. It's easy to understand for people, and I find that people have epiphany, and that, that helps everybody and I don't just do the sales team. I bring the whole company. And so what happens is, I can say they'll usually what I'll say is, you know, a CFO, a guy that you're dealing with, you know, he, he's probably not gonna say, asshole, this is probably not an asshole, right? He's probably, you know, here's the deal, if you understand the personality profile, you'll understand that he just thinks he processes a different way. So you need to feed him in such a way that it he processes it accordingly. And then he has to understand that you're not just a jerk that wants to spend all the company's money, that you actually have a process and something in mind and he can learn to appreciate what you're trying to accomplish. It's what's so important that we get companies together and understand different personalities first, internally, the first focus inside and then then they understand it's like Oh, okay. So then it becomes a common language inside the company, as well as a lot of times just kind of a private joke stuff, you know, which they all get, you know, back and forth. So, so, for instance, an accountant is usually you know, an in without going through the whole scenario, give the stuff that people easily understand visually, if you think of a plus sign, right, so, anything above the horizontal line and the plus line will be an extroverted person, anything below that will be an introverted, okay, they take the vertical line, anything to the right will be a people side, anything to the left will be task oriented, process oriented. So what that means is you've got four basic and then of course, a lot of subsets but so you've got an extroverted people, an introverted people, an extroverted task, and an introvert, introverted tasks. A lot of the a lot of the people in accounting and engineering are the introverted Task Type. So salespeople, we talked to people, like we talked to ourselves, right? Like we go up, slap them on the back, you know, shake their head, Hey, how's it going? A good senior, maybe a hug, whatever. Yeah, they're not quite that way. So, you know, if you have a client that way, or somebody inside, you know, they'll be like, Hi, how you doing good to see you. And if you understand that, it's fine, you know, it's not that they're a jerk. It's just how they're wired. You know, we're all wired differently. And thank God, you don't want me to be the CFO, I tell you that, you get the right people in there and CFOs. So CFOs, and CEOs tend to be extroverted task people, the CEOs would be closer to the line to the people side, so that they're more empathetic. And they're more easier to understand people who people are like people more CFOs will tend to be way over on the task side of that, and, you know, their their jobs and numbers. So, you know, it's kind of a long way of saying it's really important. And go back to what I said earlier. If you're internal, and you're in charge of sales, budgets and things, you need to be spending time with people across the aisle, you need to be talking to the CFO, you need to be talking to the people to do operations and say, Look, this is what we're looking at, here's why. Here's how, you know. So what I need from you is this, you know, if it's CFO, they'll understand. Another thing is don't give them this long. Four page emails, right? You know, they're the same thing with the CEO, they're there. They're called executive summary for a reason. Give them a really short, brief description. And if you as somebody in sales or marketing, this is really important, and it's hard to learn, so I had to learn it. Don't Don't go lay all your thoughts out on one email right now. So, you know, they'll read, they'll answer like the first thing and you're like, Well, what about the rest of it? So people like that, that are that thinking their process their numbers, people? Give them one question. And in an email, let them answer them another question, come back, have another one or walk over and talk with them if you can. But they're going to answer the one. But they're probably going to be frustrated trying to read four pages of stuff, because they're not wired that way. Yep. And so I found that to be really powerful. And when I can communicate with them, basically, in their languages, like, I'm working in Mexico, I speak the best Spanish I can, you know, it's like, you know, if you speak to people basically in their language, then then everybody works better together.

Tim Kubiak: 43:54

Yeah, it's a it's ironic, I just did a disc profile. And Tammy ebright, who did it for me, or gave it to me? And that's what she does. She trains on desk, and I had her go through my results on the show live.

Ken Hasty: 44:08

Well, fantastic. That's great.

Tim Kubiak: 44:10

And it's hysterical. It's like, you know, well, apparently, you're not much on consensus building after a point, and I'm like, Nope, I, you know, and it's funny, and she's reading it. And she was being very, very professional and very gentle. I said, Look, I'm a sales guy. I am all about us collaborating until you give me a number and then All that matters is the number.

Ken Hasty: 44:31

Yeah, so so he's like, you're probably you're probably an AI but maybe not a super high, maybe closer to the spot of the line. Where do you come in

Tim Kubiak: 44:40

on that? So I was super high dominance, super high emotional control, right. I'm super low empathy on the desk one.

Ken Hasty: 44:49

Yeah. That's Yes. Right. My guess is like a negative almost. It's like yes, there. Yeah. But you can't be if you're going to, I mean, you have to you have to make yourself be but in general They can't be your focus when you're trying to drive a company. It's got to be results. Right?

Tim Kubiak: 45:05

Yeah. And that's what you know, I, that was how I read my own results was, well, of course, I'm that way in my job. I'm a different person with my family. I'm a different person with the people I love. Right. And frankly, I'm a different person with my own team.

Ken Hasty: 45:20

Well, I think there's a, you have a different role to play, right? Yeah. So so it's not you're a different person, my, I don't want to steal your words out of your mouth. But basically, it's not you're a different person. You're, you're working in a different role, and you treat it accordingly. So I would phrase it

Tim Kubiak: 45:34

Yeah. Yeah, that's, you know, I, I've joked for years at home, I'm like a rock star. Just Pump me up and push me back into work. I don't want to know anything else take care of everything. Let me just do what I do. Right. And personality flaw? Probably. Um,

Ken Hasty: 45:54

you know, it depends on the person that you're the people at home, right?

Tim Kubiak: 45:58

Yes, exactly. Right. You know, I love I'm a huge Alice Cooper fan, right. And one of the things he did early in his career that I read in his book was, he turned his manager he said, put my money wherever you're putting your money that you make for me.

Ken Hasty: 46:15

Oh, smart.

Tim Kubiak: 46:16

And right. He said, Well, you know, you're sure about basic Yeah, because if you trust yourself to put your money there, then I trust you to put my money there. That's it. That's good. Good advice. I

Ken Hasty: 46:27

have got it now a friend. It's actually the guy we bought the house from a theory of Michigan was a rock, rock and roll agent. So like, he talks about golfing with Glenn Frye and Alice Cooper and hanging out and there's, I just love his stories, because you know, they're true. And they're interesting. And I bought a pool table. And I said, So who's played on this pool table? And he's like, Oh, yeah, who's been your stakes. Tesla? Think that new Gen was over here. And I'm like, so anyway, just so like you I've got I've got appreciation for the, for the music in the rack and history inside, you know,

Unknown: 47:00

and you get a piece

Ken Hasty: 47:01

of it, the pool table, that is exactly right, I want to do some kind of plaque or something. I'm digressing from the sales side of it. But I will say the sales part of it is being human. And being able to, you know, do that what they call the warm up session, when you first sit down with somebody, and you have that ability to talk as a fellow human being. And you know, that then, because people will buy from people that they know, they like, and they trust, you know, as long as they actually need the product. So, so if they like you, and they know you and they trust you, then they're going to want to buy from you. And I'll give you, I'll give an example, we just made a big purchase, we had to buy a new roof for the house. And so we'll get two quotes, the first guy had a gmail address.

Tim Kubiak: 47:42

There you go.

Ken Hasty: 47:43

And he came up, and his quote was $10,000, lower than the other one, right. So of course, emotionally, you know, the frugal side of me would like to do that. But there was just something I couldn't trust, if I didn't have a website, you know, and it's like, I'm sure he probably did good work. So we brought out a, quote unquote, professional company, the guy spent three hours going over everything, photographed, everything walked us through in detail ad nauseum everything that we need to know. And then some, and we happily spent 10,000 more with that company, I think for the peace of mind, knowing that we're, you know, they're being relatively certain that we're going to have a great roast gonna last a long time, we got somebody to go to if there's a problem, and that they, you know, that they're thorough. And so, a lot of salespeople, they sell to people, like, like, like they're selling to themselves or not people in general, right, so every has a budget every has a certain amount, most of us didn't inherit millions of dollars, and, you know, just working because we're for fun, right, you know, most of us work to eat. And so if that's the case, then we in our minds, think, think of things that have certain levels, right? So we go to buy a car, we're probably not thinking a Lamborghini Ferrari, right. But there are plenty of people that do and can and you know, the good good for them. So we shouldn't limit our what we can try to sell. Based on our personal budget, we should be able to go in and say, you know, this is these are the options and let them make the decisions. Because I can tell you this, I've known a number of billionaires, I've known a number of multimillionaires, and I can tell you that you will not recognize that on the street. They stand right next to you wearing your jeans or whatever you would never know it. So don't go in there as a salesperson and just lowball because you think that's all they can afford. And I give an example. When I was a kid, my dad had a good friend and his boss got a lot of money. But he had a little ranch north of town and lives in Phoenix and he used to go out and work on the ranch and one day he got bored on the ranch. He got to stuff to go buy a new Lincoln Continental. So the cash in his pocket, drove down to Lincoln, his old pick up his coveralls, cowboy hat. Nobody weighed up. So he walked around the parking lot, a little more smile to people, nobody weighed on him. So they drove over to the Cadillac Dealer paid cash for a new Cadillac. Go back to them. Lincoln dealer made them aware of their fatal flaw with that call. So as a kid, I learned don't judge a book by its cover when you're trying to sell. I mean, there's a lot of I was talking to this friend of mine the other night, and turns out one of the people in the company, you'd never know it is a multimeter. But they're just there to work, because, you know, they want to do something at work. And I never would have known that I probably shouldn't know that now. What it's like, Wow. You know? Yeah. So going back to the point, don't don't judge people's wallets, give people a fair assessment of what the options are. Let them make their choice.

Tim Kubiak: 50:38

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. I love this story about the Lincoln dealer, right? Because

Ken Hasty: 50:45

you see that a lot. Where people dress the denies, sometimes don't have anything on their overalls with modern a boots have a pocketful of cash. I've seen that over and over, you know, the people that are trying to impress you. Here's the difference. People that have made it don't need to impress you. And like they don't care about it. The people that are trying to impress you watch out.

Tim Kubiak: 51:10

Yeah. Yeah. You know, my dad used to tell a story. One of the guys that worked for him had weekday suits and weekend suits. Right. And that was just to his name was Eric, that's who Eric was. So you know, one day my dad stopped by their house on the weekend for something and this is before cell phones and anything right and drop something off. And he said something, he said, Eric, why are you wearing a suit? He's like, I always wear suit. He's like, Yeah, but you're not wearing a tie. Right? I got a complex. And it wasn't that he was trying to be something he wasn't. He was comfortable in a suit versus jeans. Right. So the man wore suit every day of his life.

Ken Hasty: 51:50

I know people like that. And that for me, you come by my house, there's a really good chance I won't be in a suit.

Tim Kubiak: 51:57

This is what you get, right?

Ken Hasty: 52:00

You get what you get for that I do. And I know you do as well. Even though during the pandemic, I'm not working from an office like I usually do. So I'm working from my office at home, aka my basement, which I love. But I still find that I need to get dressed for work, right? If I if I don't, then I'm just like, it might as well be Saturday or Sunday and I'm just home doing whatever. And so, you know, you see the d'amour logo shirt and that kind of stuff. And it just it sets the pace. It says we have to say okay, I am working I am you know, I'm not just off today. And I find that to be kind of important.

Tim Kubiak: 52:38

Yeah, I think that's a big thing. And that's I was reading this morning. A lot of companies are really debating whether they go back to office or stay remote. I've started to see companies that they've cut Tini again this year, because they realized the cash savings, it's going to be a really interesting world for salespeople going forward.

Ken Hasty: 53:00

Well, the companies really should right now bring people like you and me in that are working with companies to make them more effective post pandemic. Because if they try to do it the old fashioned way, the way they've always done it, they're gonna be in deep trouble. Yeah. And the other thing is, don't invest in commercial office real estate right now. They're there. They're about to take a huge nosedive. Ironically, residential real estate's going up, because people sit around their house go, we got to get a bigger place.

Tim Kubiak: 53:32

Yeah, we got to remodel we got to get a bigger place we got yet.

Ken Hasty: 53:36

Yeah, I think like, you know, gym equipment right now you can already buy it right? You can do things like that, because people that are at home, are trying to maximize their home, like, we now have like a pretty functional gym in our basement. Whereas I would have just in the past gone down to Planet Fitness. Now I probably won't go back, you know, and right. I plan to fit this, but I don't need to go there. Now I got the set up here. And so that's going to happen across the board. So if you are a Planet Fitness, if you're a different kind of a business, you've got to start figuring out how to pivot.

Unknown: 54:09

You have to

Ken Hasty: 54:10

in order to do well. It's kind of like the kerosene Lantern, people that didn't turn into the light bulb businesses didn't last very long, you know?

Tim Kubiak: 54:19

Yeah, that's it. You don't want to be selling wagon wheels when everybody goes to rubber.

Ken Hasty: 54:23

Yep, exactly. Right. Yeah. And so people need i would i would implore any business owner right now or any any CEO, to really take a look at the trends and then really pay close attention to say, Where are things headed? And, you know, how have we been doing it? Because if your answers, that's the way we've done it for years, then it's probably not going to be a successful answer. Unless you just happen to be in the right place.

Tim Kubiak: 54:47

Yep, that's exactly right. So as we wrap things up here, what did I ask you? What did I get you to talk about that I showed up?

Ken Hasty: 54:57

Well, you know, it's a good question. I enjoy our conversation. Because it's literally that it's conversational between two expert salespeople and sharing stories and ideas and such. So nothing comes to mind. But if something comes to mind, I'm always I'm always happy to come back around and say, say so. But just in just in general, I think I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, kind of reiterate my basic premise or points. If you're a company right now, start looking forward to the trends and how things are changing. And make sure you don't become a victim of it. In fact, ideally, become a capital capitalize on it. There's, there's a, there's a Chinese symbol Chinese character, that Not always, but a lot of times, it means crisis will always means crisis. But in many cases, the exact same symbol means opportunity. And so there's opportunity in every crisis, at zero, 90 mid, and you're looking into the future, try to figure out what your opportunity is, especially post pandemic post crisis, so that your company isn't in crisis, and take a good look at your messaging, get your digital footprint up to speed if you're not, and, you know, and it's probably wise to bring in professionals to help you, you know, so you know that what do they say? Anyway, again, I'm trouble with that adage. But But basically, you know, don't try to save money on a parachute, you know, don't go to discount brain surgery. You know, that kind of thing. And when it comes to your business, if it's important to you, then spend the money you need to, to help you maximize your business.

Tim Kubiak: 56:46

You've got to spend and you got to measure, but you've got to measure your ROI.

Ken Hasty: 56:50

For sure. Let's Excellent. Well, Tim, I appreciate the conversation today. It's always great talking with you. And you know, so thanks for bringing me on. Yeah, pleasure

Unknown: 57:02

having you